Supervillain Smackdown S1: Joker Vs. Magneto
(Note: This is a repost of the original article).
Here at The Correctness SportsishNetwerkkz, we offer our be-all-end-all absolutely correct answers on which supervillains would win in a fight. Lex Luthor has bankrolled the competition.Which of the 8 will come out on top? The playoffs continue this week in the Pengrowth Deathdrome. It’s brutal, ugly, violent, and soul rending…and that’s just the comment section!!!
The Rules, and the Bracket were laid out in advance, in this post. Two days of prep, battle is held in the stadium, and it’s to the death. Game on.
THIS WEEK: The First Quarter Final: Joker vs Magneto for a spot in the finals.
Tony
JOKER: Your powers are very impressive. You put the “Neato” in Magneto. Do you have to really concentrate to do all that stuff? You must have picked that up from concentration camp when you were a kid! HA HA HA HA ! Oh it was a long way to get there but totally worth it! HA HA HA HA!!!
There are two types of “Overpowering” in the comic book universe. One way of doing it is to infinitely expand existing powers to the point of ridiculousness. The other is to take someone with NO discernable powers and to amp up their ingenuity to the point where if you try hard enough, you can justify anything for them, even beating the guy with the amped up powers.
And the patron Saints of both schools of thought are battling it out this week. Joker vs. Magneto. On paper it’s a no brainer, Magneto has Godlike powers, the Joker has a sick sense of humor and pithy one liners. But that pesky power of Dues ex rears its ugly head and suddenly it’s not so easy.
So let’s try and postulate ways in which the Joker MIGHT squeak out a victory and go from there.
He could kidnap and utilize Leech, thus rendering Magneto powerless. A shot of Joker venom and Magneto smiles for the first and last time in his life. But my familiarity with Leech is limited to X-men 3 and something tells me that Magneto has already dealt with that problem at least once, and knows how to get around it.
He could with his connections and brilliance tamper with Magneto’s helmet. Maybe a small needle tucked inside delivering venom right into Magneto’s neck. But I somehow doubt Magneto just leaves the thing lying around. Still, let’s call that a maybe.
Joker’s goons have clay guns and bullets and take shots at him from the stands. But even though he can’t control the bullets I believe he can still repel them with his force field.
The more I think about this, the more I think there’s just no way the Joker can get him. So I am giving this to Magneto…with the caveat that the Joker pulls out his greatest trick and escapes alive and pissed off, and Magneto better watch his back.
Winner: Magneto
Dave:
The hardest part of the Supervillain Smackdown thus far is fact that there are not enough interesting villains at the same power available. Often there are are questions like “Why No Galactus?” (Answer: DUH!). There are, of course, different levels of power, and you can’t put Darkseid up against Catwoman. To make separate brackets creates a time issue, as having 3 brackets with say 8 villains would consume most of the year. (Not to say we won’t do another power level bracket in the future). So we brainstormed, argued about which villains would fit within the parameters. We did NOT, as the pundits would tell you, set up a specific showdown, or “write” the final. We don’t work that way. As there are three of us each weigh in without discussion, it simply doesn’t happen. And it would be boring as hell. Why the hell would we want to do that? Where’s the fun in that?
The best part is the discussion that the smackdowns create. Whether it’s here or on other forums around the web, the joy is in considering the possibilities, finding loopholes, and arguing your point. That’s the main reason that we post pretty much every comment we get, regardless of whether it agrees with us or not. (We filter out the spam, the obvious threadjack/ linkjack attempts, and comments that don’t actually say ANYTHING.)
My problem with this week’s smackdown is that we keep running up against the rampant overpower issue. It’s ironic, as most fanboys assume that DC is the overpowered universe, that their characters are all Gods, etc. But when you look at the Marvel side of things, it’s really just as bad. And the longer characters are around, the worse it gets. Marvel made a big mistake a while back in giving everyone (Wolverine aside) a healing factor. Seriously, nearly everyone has one. It’s their way of saying “this is how people can take the punishment they’re given and come back for more.” But for me, that’s too much overexplaining. They’re heroes and villains. They’re mightier than us. ‘Nuff said.
But the result is you get a character like Magneto, who originally was simply able to use magnetism to his advantage, and you build that into a guy who can mess up everything in the universe, pull a giant space bullet off course, and create wormholes.
Joker, on the other hand, is still pretty much an average guy who excels in creating disorder and chaos. To be fair, whatever hoops we jump through to create a scenario in which Joker gains the upper hand are false at best. Because the image in my mind is Magneto getting tired of the fight, thinking hard and taking apart the entire stadium in seconds, and inserting pieces of it in Joker’s brain, all while raising himself into the air. Joker doesn’t have the knowledge of Magneto’s family to use against him, (arguable whether that would even work), Magneto wouldn’t be impressed by anything the Joker’s done, or could do in terms of evil (wouldn’t be shocked if Joker killed everyone at the contest), and considers Joker to be a lesser life form, as he’s not a mutant. So most of Joker’s planning/tactics would be ineffective.
Also, Joker is probably bored by this time, and wishing he could get back to what he does best, messing with Batman’s head. Joker isn’t in it for the money, the glory, or the power. He’s just a hyper-intelligent crazy dude who is obsessed with Batman.
So, any way we slice this one,
Winner: Magneto
Rob:
Errrrrrrmmmmm, so, we’ve been living with the regret of underestimating Batman and his cleverness during the Superhero Smackdown. And logically, we felt, we’ve been treating The Joker as the Batman of Villains. Meanwhile, Magneto is pretty kickass, and has a cool hat, that’s tough to argue.
Maybe the argument we haven’t explored is that these villains are flawed. They are flawed so that no matter how well matched they are against our heroes, our heroes are just a notch better.
So: who is more flawed, The Joker, or Magneto?
Well, The Joker is batshit crazy, no pun intended. I have had the unique fortune of seeing a few real life psychotic episodes, and most really genuinely crazy folk are actually not the best planners. I know, I know, The Joker is special. He’s clinical! A serial killer! A sociopath(technically, unless you think his crazy is more genetic and less environmental- my research suggests a lot of it was environmental…) ! Look, crazy people don’t plan well, and they quite often have entirely revisionist understandings of how they ended up in their current situations, weaving contrary, illogical and likely primarily false narratives about their role in their own lives. Real crazy, “Joker crazy”, is only functional, clever and brilliant for a small percentage of the time, and the rest of the time, it’s telling you why it’s your fault they are up a tree on a wednesday night at 2am when you have to work the next morning, and they just keep screaming and kicking you, and kicking you, and kicking you.
Magneto, on the other hand, is less like crazy, and more like a patriot. A mutant nationalist, or, a religious leader. He simply believes with a stern faith that he is correct. Does that make him crazy? Well, you could argue that. I mean, faith can lead people to do crazy things, like rape 200 deaf boys and be protected by the future pope because it might look bad if people talked about it, but I digress.
Magneto is less likely to make a mistake in the heat of the moment than the Joker is- Both of these villains can scheme away for eternity, but The Joker is unstable enough to lose out eventually. Batman just locked up the Joker when the Joker had cracked for the umpteenth time, but Magneto could and would crush Arkham in around the Joker. Plus, Magneto has a cool hat. Cool hat!
Winner: Magneto
Runner up: Cool Hats!
Decision: Magneto
So Magneto moves on the final, to face either Mystique or Doctor Doom, who square off next week. Weigh in below, True Believers.
(the following comments were posted on the original article)
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n8 said on 09-04-2010
n8
As much as I love Mr. J, there’s just no other way this could’ve come out. I think Dave pretty well nailed it: the Joker is a good foil for Batman because Mr. J specializes in playing on Batman’s particular weaknesses: Batman is a defender and has a very strict code that he follows. Joker pits the one against the other and gets his kicks from Batman’s cognitive dissonance.
Magneto simply doesn’t suffer from those weaknesses… overpoweredness aside, he’s very straightforward about what he wants and what he’s willing to do to see that it happens. He’s willing to inflict collateral damage and burn assets as needed. He basically has nothing for the Joker to work with.
The ensuing magnetically-inflicted death is secondary… Joker’s defeat is mainly a matter of being too specialized to deal with anyone other than a white knight (or a Dark one.)
Reply
Ace amongst Aces said on 09-04-2010
Ace amongst Aces
Magneto walks into the arena to see the Joker across the field holding a metal sphere with a giant “!” painted on it. Magneto perceiving an obvious threat and confident of his eventual victory decides to crush the sphere and then give the Joker his “What now, biatch?” glance that he practiced the night before.
The sphere is a sub-critical mass of a fissionable material.
Many miles away the Joker lounges on a chair, umbrella drink in hand wearing SPF Infinity and thick darkened goggles. When he finally sees the flash and feels the shock-wave, he quietly muses to himself.
“Finally a battle that is assured to have glowing reviews.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
spcMike said on 09-04-2010
spcMike
I just tried searching Wikipedia for “Marvel characters with a healing factor” and my computer exploded. And really, it is ridiculous, although to be fair the Joker was shot in the head and seems to be doing just fine.
I tried really hard to think of some way for Joker to beat Magneto and about the only way I could think of would be if Joker could trick Mr. Mxyzptlk’s powers again and then turning Magneto into just a giant magnet then the Joker keeps throwing his razor sharp cards at Magneto.
I’m sure you guys would’ve thought about this as well if you weren’t too busy violating your mothers in ways only Newfoundland sheep could understand.
Joker said on 09-04-2010
Joker
While i dont find this to be exactly wrong, there is one thing you didnt consider, the Joker beat superman in one of the comics by Jim Lee, he had prep time and made something that superman could not escape fast enough to catch him, thus he was able to overcome a vast power difference.
With no prep time, its a hands down Mag’s, but given some time, even 1 day, it isnt so clear cut, and i think the Joker would win, if nothing else, Mag’s is predictable, Joker isnt, well that and of the two of them, joker is the one that wouldnt have any issues with setting off 1000 nukes 1/4 mile away, even if it also killed him.
Tomass said on 10-04-2010
Tomass
It’s been proven that Magneto can survive a nuke.
Reply
Tomass said on 09-04-2010
Tomass
Ya even Aquaman & Robin would have a hard time vs. Magneto. I mean they’d win of course, but it would be touch and go for a little while.
You know the Joker could have won this, if he used the strategy that Aquaman & Robin would have used… he could have slipped Ipecac or a high power laxative into Magneto’s pre-fight sip of water (or power/gator aid). Because I mean come on, all good athletes know that you need to stay hydrated, and of course Magneto would have had a quick sip before the show.
You can’t fight when all you can do is poop (or barf).
Or alternately Joker could have laced his food with codeine for the 2 days prior and then it becomes “you can’t fight if you can’t poop.”
Really in hind sight, for the most part, you fine correctness gents are just not thinking like SUPER Villains. Hells you’re not even really thinking like regular villains. Fuck lets just say it! You’re not even thinking the modicum of evil, like Snidely Whiplash kind of evil. I mean tie some one to a train track (for no reason) at least.
Where are the death rays? Where are the eviscerations? Where is the over abundance of evil laughter (Joker excluded)? Where are the grand evil master plan reveals, only to be overturned by the opponents grander eviler master plan reveals? These are bad people. And they know they’re not just toying with there normal “do gooders”. This is life and death against assholes who are just as horribly fucked-up as they are.
True Magneto is pretty straight laced and would be all about just building a super canon and killing all of his opponents in one shot (thus some how ensuring Mutant supremacy over all the earth). And less about making a giant mutant octopus-cat that would savagely rape his opponents to death. But the point is he’s a super villain and all comic book “Evil” or “Super Villains” share a common thread… Grandiose, mundane or even totally nonsensical goals thru only the most violent, extreme, and/or convoluted means possible.
Take the Joker Type for example. They don’t just rob a bank by going in killing all the employees and taking the money (just to be rich). No! They hire a pile of expendable goons, rent or steal a bus, slowly kill off there own goons, take the money out of the bank by bus (backed trough the front door), and out into a perfectly timed mass field trip line of busses (that possibly they organized). Why not just kill the people in the bank and walk out rich… Because it’s not Super Villain evil!
Or Ozymandias, did he really, really need to build a massive Egyptian style complex complete with a genetically engineered cat on the edge of a glacier and wipe out a big chunk of New York in order to stop Mutually Assured Destruction? I would argue no, but that is why I’m not a super villain.
Or did Marvel / 20th Century Fox really need to totally rewrite the Wolverine origin story? Did they need to totally fuck up Dead Pool? Was there not enough source material to make a good movie? Of course there was! But when you’re a super villain you don’t just make a good movie and profit. You make a seething pile of shit! You waste countless man hours, producing it, having actors learn your pages & pages of trite dialogue and market and hype it. All for the ultimate waste, have people pay you mass amounts of money to waste their time watching it… then you profit. That’s evil!
I could go on but I have to go feed my monkey now.
spcMike said on 09-04-2010
spcMike
Bra-fucking-vo.
RobbieRobTown said on 09-04-2010
RobbieRobTown
Sorry, I was just talking to my mother, could you guys repeat that?
Tomass said on 10-04-2010
Tomass
Monkeys or Pygmy Marmosets?
Chico said on 09-04-2010
Chico
Yes, it’s absurd. Likewise absurd to somehow twist it around into making some cheap shot joke about “religious” people which always somehow means Christians, and in this case Catholics. The children that were abused are not some cheap punchline just so you can show how “enlightened” you are and not akin to crazy people who are…people of faith.
It’s a tragedy and they should be rooted out, just like the institutional child rape in Muslim countries and genital mutilation of little girls should be rooted out — but when talking about “religion,” somehow it’s only ever one religion you’re talking about. (Scientology would also fit the bill.)
And before people get upset that I’d bring it up, if you post that kind of thing in a story on COMICS, you’re going to get responses like this — and few as well reasoned.
In any case, the Joker would be turned inside out by Magneto. It’s Bambi vs. Godzilla.
The Senator said on 09-04-2010
The Senator
I dunno about this one. The Joker employs plenty of weaponized gases in his arsenal, and he’s good with improvized weapons (like for instance 2×4s or shards of glass). Further, Magneto’s main foils are the x-men, who (at least not until VERY recently) are pretty much boy scouts. In a Joker / Magneto fight, I would see Joker getting ahold of some vial of the Legacy virus before the match or something, ticking Magneto off with a war of words and enraging him to the point of lashing out with a girder or something, and when Joker is all banged up on the ground, Magneto walks up to deliver the finishing blow and stops to say something grandiose about how much superior mutants are when out of nowhere Joker squirts him with his laughing gas/legacy virus combo and stabs him with repeatedly with a shard of glass. I would give it to Joker. Magneto is too BORING to win…
Random Guy said on 09-04-2010
Random Guy
People come up with all these ways that Joker could possibly beat Magneto. But sadly they don’t seem to realize there is simply no way for him to do it.
If Joker doesn’t show up IN the stadium then he forfeits.
If he does show up then this is how it goes… Match starts, Magneto, expecting deception, destroys EVERYTHING in the stadium but himself, which takes about 1 second. He wins.
There is no screwing with his head, no putting in a fake. NOTHING. Magneto is simply so overpowered in this situation that if he wants to win he does so, virtually instantly.
John Stephens said on 09-04-2010
John Stephens
I’ll take the Joker’s side since no one else wants to. What the Joker does best is really mess with people’s heads. What would REALLY get under Magneto’s skin? Well, he considers himself a defender of mutants, so being manipulated into harming one of his own kind would do it.
So here’s what happens. During the prep time, the Joker kidnaps and drugs/hypnotizes some mutant into believing that he is in fact the Joker. On fight day, Mr. J slips the ringer into the locker room in his place, and sneaks off to watch the fun from a safe distance. Magneto whacks the fake Joker, realizes too late he’s been had, and we get a classic full page “NOOOOOO!”
It’s all about how you DEFINE victory!
chuckus said on 10-04-2010
chuckus
Joker can’t win. The best he can do is a stalemate. his goal is to mess with the opponents head not kill them.
He’d probably manufacture a chemical and bio agent that will instantly kill a mutant but not a “regular” human. Through diabolical joker scheming infect every mutant EXCEPT for magneto. The trigger is Joker being killed.
In a witty showdown after getting his ass beat, inform magneto of his choice. Win and be responsible for the mutant holocaust or sacrifice himself for the good of all mutant kind.
Cut to close up of joker laughing and display “to be continued”.
the7dead said on 10-04-2010
the7dead
Wow, that’s the best scenario about the joker winning I’ve read about so far. You nailed it. Jeesus you must be a comic book writer!
Absolute Dave said on 10-04-2010
Absolute Dave
Prep time is all the joker needs, hes absolutly mad but brilliant about it so he has somehow killed a scientist that invented a device the size of a PDA with a little antena with a ball on the end and a couple rings in the middle that repulses anything that could be magneticly affected away from his person and as we are playing by comic book rules it works perfectly and has no set limitation.
Magneto however can control anything that could be magneticly charged and there is nowhere on earth without good ol’ iron so he could do make the particles of iron beneath jokers feet shoot through him like a trillion bullets or rip the iron right out of jokers blood stream or turn the stadium into a giant anvil to drop on jokers head.
Anything magento tries to do to joker or throws at joker simply doesnt work with jokers fancy pants repulsion palm pilot so Mags encases joker in an iron sphere the size of Manhatten and tosses it into space into a worm hole hes created to some incredibly distant galaxy or other dimension and noone gets to hear joker laugh away his last gasped breaths.
Magneto could never have lost.
Prodigal Sorceror said on 10-04-2010
Prodigal Sorceror
Of course Magneto wins, but there’s no way he’d walk away clean. A major factor you’ve overlooked is that in his mania the Joker doesn’t fear death, but lives to torture, not just kill his opponents. While Magneto’s power and intelligence, and increasingly insane arsenal of resources give him an insurmountable advantage over the Joker, I’m sure the laughing schemer would somehow arrange the death of Magneto’s son, Quicksilver, and the torture and gross disfigurement of his daughter Scarlet Witch a la Lavinia in Shakespeare’s bloodiest, Titus Andronicus. Five to one the atrocities committed against Magneto’s family would be done in a way that they were triggered by Magneto’s own hand. So yes, the Joker dies, but he was having too much fun to worry about survival anyway, such is life for a madman.
Adikt said on 12-04-2010
Adikt
Should have been Sinestro v/s Joker.
Been busy with school, actually forgot about this stuff somehow. Anyway, I put the reasons why Sinestro would have beat Magneto in the comment section for that fight.
Joker would still have lost. And Doom will win overall. He’s the only one with control over magic, like he even needs it.
